Cracking the $3M Deal: Sales Wisdom, AWS Marketplace Success & Life Lessons with Faraz Khan, AWS Marketplace Leader

Transcript

Host: Hi everyone, this is Sujay Maheshwari and thanks for tuning in into ScaleToZero Podcast. I have a very dear friend and almost my mentor in today's episode. He is Faraz Khan. He is an experienced General Manager with an extensive enterprise on-prem and cloud experience, leading various sizes of digital transformation for all kinds of customers, including large enterprise customers.

Currently, he is responsible for AWS Marketplace adoption for customers, channel acquisitions for reseller business, and ISV partnerships on AWS Marketplace. Welcome Faraz, so nice to have you on ScaleToZero.

Faraz Khan: Yeah, thank you, Sujay. It doesn't look like a podcast because it feels like I'm talking to a friend. So it's like my anxiety is down. This is the first time I'm giving a podcast. So thank you very much for choosing me. And thank you very much you being there because it makes my job easier. So I'll be as honest as possible.

Host: 100%. Do you even know what an anxiety means? I don't think you even know, right? I remember our first meeting and folks had told me that, if you want to get into the AWS ecosystem, marketplace ecosystem, there's this guy called Faraz based out of Gurgaon office. You need to meet him, right? I remember my conversation with folks in Mumbai when I was talking to them and You were like, yeah, let's meet at lunch place, you know, let's talk over lunch. And you took me to a very nice Indian sort of restaurant, right? We had biryani and I still remember that afternoon, right? So I was anxious then I'm like, who is this guy? like, you know, I've heard so many things about him. So so thanks for being that cool person in the in the room.

I want to let also the audience know that we are not, we have not scripted this. So we don't even know how long this will go.

But I want to start with something. I want to take you back into your days at Bhopal, your days of schooling. So when you were growing up, did you even know that you would be into sales? You would be working for this construct which you are in right now? How was that like?

Faraz Khan: Yeah, so the thing is in that way I usually call myself a God's child because the reason is that whatever I had planned ever for myself, it never happened that way. And whatever was supposed to happen, it was destiny. And because it happened for good, So I attached that destiny with like there's somebody who's taking care of me because I never had planned to go into sales. I had never planned to go into IT. I had never planned to even leave my city. And so these are three plans which I had that I'm sure I don't want to do. But exactly all that three happened.

The first job, the campus interview I had, I got a job in NACIT, which I never wanted. That job was in Mumbai, which I never wanted because I remember people going in locals, starting their day at 3 AM. Mumbai life is crazy. I like, like because there is a fun thing about Bhopal and like people how differentiators. Mumbai has a sea which always keeps moving and Bhopal is a city of lakes which are always still.

So I am that city place guy where I want to be as still as possible. But I was never still worked in like four or five cities in India based there. Worked in five continents, worked in four different countries. So just opposite happened, but whatever happened, happened for good. And I'm very thankful for whatever has happened. So I'm a child of luck. So that's what I am, yes.

Host: So well put, you are very humble for us. I know in your journey you also happen to live in the Middle East, specifically for a very long time. Almost like majority part of your professional career if I am not wrong, you could have spent there. Tell me about how did that happen? And then you moved back, right? So we'll talk about that as well. how was, and you were part of Oracle, right? You know, such an amazing organization again. Curious to know what learnings you had around sales and relationships and partnerships there. So if you can help me learn from there.

Faraz Khan: Yeah, so good part is that my career is zero interview career. I have wherever I have got a job, I've never given an interview. It's always a relationship. Yeah, there was a process somebody needs to interview me, but there was never a process where I applied up for something. Some HR called me for something and said like we want to set up and it never happened. Somebody called me and said I want you to work for me and that's how it happened. So even Dubai happened that way. I was with Oracle India. Somebody like my ex-colleague, he moved to Dubai with 3i Infotech and he said would you love to come to Dubai?

Again, that was like too far away because I was working in the US market but not moving there but traveling back and forth. But the thing is I was in Bangalore and my city is Bhopal. At that point of time there was no direct flight so I had to go to Mumbai or Delhi and then connected flight to Bhopal.

What that guy said is like, for us, it anyways takes you 11 hours to reach your city. How about you take the same amount of time to reach your city and you don't pay any taxes. And I said, that sounds good. So, Bangalore to Bhopal, it changed to Dubai to Bhopal. So that's how it happened.

Then with 3i Infotech, I went into one of the craziest times, 2008 crash, and I was selling to investment banks and investment banks were like, I was going to them and they were like, say, for us, we just lost a billion dollars today. And that's how it happened. So I moved to a company called Epicor, which was one of the ERP solutions and computer. Yeah.

Yeah, so ERP solutions back to that. And then I closed one of the biggest deals against Oracle. It was a short, short Oracle deal. But then we ended up taking it. Epicor, nobody knows. And you know how my again interview was? I was called like, want to hire you.

The leader of Middle East Africa gave me five minutes. He said, you closed the deal against my best sales guy. said, like, I don't know what to say. Yes, it happened.

And said, OK, you're hired, So the thing is, that's why I landed in Oracle. Good part is I got an exposure in selling Oracle Fusion Cloud because it was just introduced. And it was a great opportunity to do that. But I'll be very honest with you, sales was never my forte because, like, I don't know why. But, that's something I never got into that. I was more into the relationship, making a bigger impact. And 16 years, I did sales, I closed some great accounts. But within me, I was like, no, it's not making a bigger impact. And I cannot just concentrate on four accounts, five accounts, how to make it big, how to make a bigger impact. And that's why… after working around Oracle, starting a company with one of the persons, but it was still about a very limited impact.

And somehow, like I'll be very honest sharing with you, I was not a great sales guy. was like, Yeah. So that's why we did CS.

Host: We'll come to that. We'll come to that. We'll come to that. Somehow we need to pull that thing of humbleness sort of thing, right? But let, I want to, you mentioned a few things and I want to pick on those now.

You never thought of sales. You never were into sales. What happened? Where, did your hiring manager identified something in you or you said something in a conversation where people felt that you know, you can be trusted with a deal, you know, of this size, right? You know, mentioned about how at Epicor like you won one of the largest deal. Yeah. So do you still remember about that and what do you think changed it.

So I want to address two things here. How does a leader identify and now that you have been in the leadership position, how do you identify that this person is a sales guy? He may not know, but this person can do sales very well. Let's start with that.

Faraz Khan: Yeah, so there are two things which actually makes you a great salesperson. One is that you have a passion for what you're selling because that passion resonates. Because if I just go ahead and if I'm not convinced about what I'm selling, I can never identify with the person across the desk. Second is that I should have a great listening capacity.

So these are the two things which makes you connect with people. So end of the day, you look at IT products, every day there is a new product coming in, new technology coming in. And it is not at all in the capacity of a customer to keep changing every day. But what they do is, when they sit in front of a salesperson, they end of the day connect with that person, kind of start trusting. And start seeing that, that person cares about me and he hears me out. He at least knows my problem.

And that's what makes a great salesperson. that's what actually even my managers would have thought that because end of the day, I can build trust because being very transparent, telling the real thing, which actually comes sometime against your sales job because sometimes you don't need to be like as transparent possible.

Maybe we'll come to that discussion later why I didn't like it. But the thing is that once you are compassionate enough, listen to somebody, understand, passionate about what you are bringing on the table, that's the mix you need to be a salesperson. Perfection overloaded and you can take it ahead with that. Yeah.

Host: Super, super. Wow, I think I have been reading a little bit about sales because I don't come from a sales background right as you know and the listening part which you said, I think that is the real deal here. Where I've had some conversations where I told the prospect of the customer in front of me, like you don't need this. What I'm selling, you don't need this. You need something else.

And this person was shocked. Like you're saying no to business. I'm like, no, you will churn. Right. So I, I, that's a great lesson actually.

Tell me, like, if you still remember that Epicore deal, tell me what you changed, like what happened there? What was your magic there? Like what worked out?

Faraz Khan: Yeah, so the thing is that I had recently joined Epicore and this was the deal given to me that this is like a three million dollar deal which Epicore was like signing like close to like 100-150k average deals then. Three million dollar deal and it's against Oracle and just imagine when we won, I'll not tell you the full flow but when I'm sitting with the IT head, he's over a drink. He said, Faraz, you know why you won? And I'm like, you should tell me. He's like, there were 16 people which came from the competition. And from your side, there were only two, you as a salesperson and your pre-sales.

End of the day, the thing is we are engineering people, we are not technology. So in in showcase a technology if you need 16 people just imagine, to implement that technology how much how many people an effort gonna get required with you you made it so simple one person sitting. It was a three-day workshop for each of them. There was a third party who created an RFP and evaluating. They said for us, we were anyways very conscious, like, so much effort is going into it. We are engineers, not IT people. And you made our life simple. And that's why we were, from the start itself, just 16 people going out and two people coming in. That made us think that, this is something which we can control. This is something which we can trust. And there is not 16 people to go to. There is only one person to go to and make our life easier. So that's why we chose us.

So we listened to them. We made it simple. We made it just like a ground level work rather than showing them the stars in the clouds, which they look exciting, but I don't know about them. So that's what made the difference.

Host: Oh my god, my god. If I wouldn't have asked this question I wouldn't have, we wouldn't have uncovered this because sometimes people think that maybe they were looking for a cheaper solution or maybe they were looking for a better support kind of thing. But in this case it was a very simple optics like you are absolutely right.

Like like if I were to buy for example this recording software which we are using to record this podcast and if five people come and they try to sell me this I'm like my god looks like this is a very difficult thing to manage I will have I will have to have so many people like from my side to you know take care of it yeah yeah yeah!

Messaging can be taken from the physical presence of like the team that that's amazing. That's amazing.

Going ahead, I'll actually go back to my previous question because I just remembered something. Let's say I'm starting new in sales. It could be right out of college where I don't have any technical background or I could be a tech guy which, where I don't want to continue on my tech journey and go more on the sales.

And what traits you could look for in these folks? what's something which, again, how will you identify? Because maybe you are a young Gen Z sort of generation, you don't have that patience to listen. But again, as a manager, what would you look into them and how would you coach them? How would you make sure that they understand that this is how you know you should conduct yourself?

Faraz Khan: First thing first, that the capacity and urge to learn. That's the first thing which I would see in somebody that if somebody says be very transparent and say, I'm there to learn rather than I'm there to prove because there is nothing to prove right now. You are just out of college. You're there to learn. That's the first green signal to it.

Second thing is that What is your persistence to learn? Like, for example, if somebody is learning and they take a book and in five minutes they throw it out, it's like, it's too difficult. that persistence, learning first, the persistence.

And the third is passion to solve problems. that's the third. And overall, I think sales is also a bit about hint of money covered over it.

Like my manager used to say is like for us the only thing you need to bring is the urge to make a lot of money. That will take you to the next level. like it's a very not a very heavy blanket but a very light blanket to be successful, to enjoy the money because there is a pressure which comes along with what all you're doing and that can be compensated with the kind of money you are making.

You being like an entrepreneur, you run through a pressure. But end of the day, I know it's not 100%. There's a bit which says, my company valuation or my revenues, it's going up. It kind of gives that compensates it. Not the main motive, but a compensation motive. That's how it is. So these four things makes a real salesperson and can make him or her successful. And along with that, makes the company successful.

“So a successful company doesn't automatically make successful salespeople. A successful salespeople makes a successful company”. So that's what is the reality is.

Host: Wow, that was deep that was very good that yeah, absolutely right I Again as a technical founder and I'll keep repeating this I I know how difficult is to you away this avatar of like technology led thinking sort of thing right and products can be built it's not that difficult to build products or technology right and I'm not under mining and playing on that but sales is equally hard right.

Because on technology front you are dealing with some innovation maybe a machine but here you are dealing with individuals and organizations and their reducing crises and you don't know what's going on in their backyard sort of thing right and you have to make that relationship.

So you were doing very well I believe in Dubai and you mentioned there was a slight hint earlier that you were doing sales but you were not as much enjoying it I guess because of the impact you used few times.

Tell us what happened? Like how did you made your way back to I guess the alphabet now. So you started with B Bhopal Bangalore. You went to D Dubai and now in Gurgaon G. So we are still at G right now. So there are many more alphabets waiting. So tell us what happened. Right. You know, how did this all come about particularly coming back to India? And taking this role and I want to talk about this role in detail but how was that like and when was this like 2018 or 19?

Faraz Khan: 22. 22. Yeah. May 22, I landed here. So it's exactly like three years now. So the thing is that, see, there are multiple things which happened when I, which made me plan India, because like for Dubai people coming back to India is like you've lost everything. Like if you have stayed in Dubai, you can never stay in any other country. Like I've seen people hating even staying in Singapore. Like because like they said like life is so easy in Dubai the food the cars the gas price no taxes makes makes life perfect so it was not an easy decision and it became more difficult because i have two daughters who was born and brought up in Dubai they loved it they had their friends there my wife loved the place so it was a difficult decision but a lot of things it was not like i should say that it was only one factor there were multiple factors.

One was that I was thinking, like, to be honest, will be very honest, like, I was never very successful in sales because I was too transparent, that urge of like money and like to hustle, too transparent. So end of the day, this is something which was missing in me and I was not happy or not very successful, though I closed some great deals, but that continuous. And plus, I didn't want to continue doing when I turned 40, 45 because the kind of pressure, the kind of things you have, that's one thing.

Second thing is, I lost five members of my family during COVID. And my uncles, even my cousins, my real sisters, nobody is in India, and they were not even able to attend their last rites. So I had that thing. Luckily, my parents survived and I was like, I want to be close to them.

Good. I was about to leave everything, go to Bhopal, but my wife suggested wait in 15 days, you'll get bored of it. You will regret of not working because Bhopal doesn't have that corporate life. So she said, we go to India, I'm agreeing, but get a job. And luckily, I would like to thank Ish.

He had some position and this is exactly what I always wanted, Marketplace, because it was about hundreds of customers, thousands of ISVs, thousands of channel partners, distributors. So you are making a bigger impact. You're not running deal by deal. You can afford to lose some just being truthful and transparent and said, I'm going to take it.

So I joined as a channel partner development person when CPPO as we call it in marketplace thing. And then slowly I took over the ISV business and slowly, you know, the sales guy, which was hiding somewhere in me, again, got me the customer advisory, but also, so I have managed all 360 degree of marketplace and given a three digit growth from when it started till date. So yeah, that's how it is. Yes.

Host: It has been a very blessed journey, we all know, right? Folks who know you, who would listen to this, they would absolutely agree. They are nodding right now, I'm sure, and who don't know, would definitely want to talk to you.

How much did you know about AWS Marketplace when you were taking this role?

Faraz Khan: Nothing. The only thing I knew was like it brings all these three parties together. The first offsite attended, were like, AWS is about jargons like CPPO and MPPO and I was like my manager at that time, Jamie Dewar, he's like, Faraz, how did you like it? I said, sorry, I didn't understand 90 % of it.

And he's like, like, it will take some time. You'll come to know about it. So, yeah, I knew the 36,000 feet view. But when you get in, it's a much more complex world. But the thing is, slowly, because the passion was there when I started my conversation to be successful in any job, the learning and the passion, that was there.

And that's the reason it would be very easy to claim and I'm proud of it that in all of AWS globally, I know most of it rather than any single individual because I have done every aspect of marketplace, even the taxation side.

Now, India marketplace is launching. So even starting from day one, marketplace operator launch. So the thing is, I'm very proud that I know more than anybody else on Marketplace right now at AWS.

Host: I was taking a note of something that you said, and I will come back to that later. No, for sure for sure, And it doesn't feel like you have been with AWS and the Marketplace team just for three years.

The impact is one thing, but the knowledge, the depth, the complexity and the various permutations and combinations which you have handled is is very insane, I would say, right? At the speed which you could get these opportunities and you could learn, You started, you didn't know anything about AWS Marketplace, you kept learning.

So if somebody were to join your team or if you were to explain this to maybe an ISV, ISV is a product any software company, if I want to put it simply. If you want to explain them what is AWS Marketplace and I've heard this in one of your presentations in the past in Bangalore.

How would you explain what AWS Marketplace is? And then we'll double down because I want to focus this part of the conversation a lot now and about AWS Marketplace and what it is all about from your lens.

Faraz Khan: Yeah, so to be very simple, you don't like I tell the customers and they really like it. It's a very simple thing. For example, you go to a shop and you'll write like a shirt. You select the color, you select the size, you asked about the price. The relationship is directly with the seller. But the moment they talk about payment, like instead of paying cash, I tell them I use my credit card.

Can I swipe my credit card? does it change the way a seller is selling? No. Does this change the way buyer is buying? No. But it changes completely because end of the day, instead of managing that post sales work of managing the cash, depositing in the bank, collections, even like before going, should I withdraw cash? All that goes away. It actually operationally, it makes the experience seamless without changing a company way of buying, without changing an ISV sale of selling, without changing anything, you are operationalizing it and making it simple for somebody to procure and keep a record of what they are buying, when they are buying, how much did they buy, there's a complete record which comes in.

So that's the simple way I can tell about a marketplace that it brings everyone together without changing the core of selling, buying, reselling. But what it does it, it operationally makes life simple and could do that.

There are individual benefits, customer ISV, we can talk about it later. But hope I'm clear enough in putting it across how Marketplace works.

Host: 100%, yeah. I mean, this whole construct of, because I've heard this in the past, and it was even my expectation when my startup Cloudanix, we got listed on Marketplace or we were given a suggestion not by somebody at AWS, but somebody else, my thinking was that, wow, maybe I'll be getting a lot of leads.

And of course, right, know, over time we learned, not over time, but pretty soon, I guess, that it's an operational efficiency engine versus anything else, you know, and it brings, as you said, a lot of more things to the table for everyone involved, all the stakeholders.

So, right now, if you were to coach and we can pick any person, we could pick either ISV or we could pick a system integrator SI, a consulting company as you know different names there.

Why don't you pick anyone and if you were to coach them, their management, how to be successful on AWS Marketplace? If you want to bullet it out maybe two or three things, how would they go about it?

Faraz Khan: Yeah, so the thing is, AWS is a customer obsessed company. whoever I have partnered with, I see that perpetuating even with ISVs. whoever I'm sitting with, I always start with the customer story. What's in it for the customer? So for example, a customer is buying, an average size of customers buys at least 30 to 40 ISVs.

30 to 40 something in security, something in horizontal business applications like CRM systems, service systems, security systems, endpoint security, data, observability, but like every average size company buys 30 to 40 ISVs. Just imagine 30 to 40 ISVs has to, they have to manage around 30 to 40 bank accounts to pay those ISVs.

Some has INR payments, some has US dollar payments, some has euro payments. You have to pay into different currencies, pay in different countries. You don't understand what are the tax implications. Does it attract withholding tax? Does it attract GST?

Plus, you want to buy an amazing product which is not even available in a country. So how you would be able to register that product because they don't have right documentation to register in, for example, a public sector customer.

So what it brings it, makes life easier for a customer that you have to manage one bank account and maximum of 12 invoices because some invoices are going to be monthly fall into end of the month, some invoices are going to be annual, again fall into end of the month. So all those invoices get into one, you make one payment for every ISV that gets disbursed. You have a better visibility of what you're buying, how much are you buying, what is your spending.

Plus, it gives you an opportunity to read customers who are signing an EDP or commit with AWS. They can retire that quota. So all that budget constraints and everything goes away. So that's the reason it gives a single platform for a customer to buy.

Now going to the seller. Seller, why a seller would be on marketplaces? First of all, they can utilize those EDP budgets. And sometimes customers say, that's an amazing product. We don't like.

We like it, but we don't have the budgets right now. You can easily ask the customer, do you have like EDP budgets which you can consume and there could be a possibility. Second is for in...

Host: So yeah, so it's a commitment and I did not use that money only to buy AWS. I can use it to buy which is available on AWS marketplace, right? Yes. Perfect.

Faraz Khan: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And it would be one invoice. There would be a line item saying that this is for AWS consumption. This is for Cloud Enix, this product, this for this, this, this. So all would be line item wise. So this is for the customer and it operationally makes it very sound. Now for an ISV. So ISV, first of all, you can utilize those budgets, make your deal size shorter.

And then all that vendor registration and running behind that purchase order. Like I have seen in Dubai, like my salesperson standing in front of the finance guy's car because he's leaving at five and it's month end.

He's like, sir, can you release that purchase order? And he's like, no, no, don't have time. Something happened. And you miss your deals. You don't need all that. No purchase order required. No running behind the procurement. Though procurement has a very strong role to play, but that operationally becomes...

Another very important thing is, for example, you are an Indian ISV and you want to test Australian market. To do your first deal, you need to have an office, a legal entity there. You need to have people who understand taxes. You need to have people to do a transaction there. So you at least need three months and 30 to $50,000 to do your first deal. But if you have marketplace,

But if you have marketplace, you can just release an offer sitting in India to an Australian customer on their account ID. They accept it. They know you don't even need a PO or vendor registration. They pay to AWS. AWS collects it and pay into your bank account.

Why, these are important in two ways. One, you want to scale in Australia. You can do that. See for a year how that market works and then you can grow your team. Test out that market without venturing into that market.

Second, if that market is not right for you, for example, for example, you enter into a country and you realize, I don't see a lot of potential there. So all that three months and $40,000 goes in waste where you have invested. But if you have used AWS Marketplace, you stop it. You stop it tomorrow and you haven't lost anything into that market.

So it makes... the scalability easier. It makes your operational investment low before even entering into a marketing and testing it out. Another benefit is that whatever you sell on AWS Marketplace, AWS do a co-sell GTM. You were right when you said you cannot list a product from day after tomorrow, you will start getting leads. It doesn't work that way. But when you are an AWS Marketplace seller, you can actually get a lot of support from AWS in co-selling, defining your GTM, being part of their events, getting access to their customers.

For example, you have a great product and you sold to a telecom company. You want to enter another telecom company and do the repeat success, but maybe somehow you're not getting access. You work with AWS.

If they're an AWS customer, get access through AWS teams, showcase your solution, map the organization and do your another sale and do another sale and another sale. So that's why instead of hiring more sales and operation and lead generation, it becomes life become easier. You partner with somebody who have already sold and you do your start doing your deals and get the benefit out. So more than leads and opportunities, you actually invest your time with AWS, do a co-selling and a joint GTM and make it a successful engagement.

Host: Absolutely! I want to pick one part of co-selling, because at the end of the day any ISV or any partner, whether it is an ISV partner or a consulting partner, the end motive is revenue. How can we go wide? But I think there's this thing called fail fast. You what you're talking about entering a market and not working. I think it is not just fail fast, but fail with minimum expense sort of thing as well, right? You don't have to go through the paperwork because it's extremely difficult to even dissolve a legal entity. can, right? Registering a company is one thing, all right? But if you have to like just wrap that operations up, it's another paperwork and another set of expense and pain you have to go through.

So coming to the Co-Sell. And I'm very sure we could do like hours of discussion on CoSale, but I want to stick to one specific thing on CoSale. Again, I'm almost writing like a prompt, right? You you are the GenAI, like the LLM, the AWS LLM, and I'm sending you a prompt. So if you are a coach, again, on the topic we are talking about, AWS Marketplace,

And if you were to coach this young, and when I say young, young on AWS in this entire journey, this company could be an established company. How would you help them understand the Co-sell? How would they, let's say they sold to the first telecom, as you said, right? They did it on their own. How would they leverage this from here on? You mentioned bit about it if we can go deeper into it because I see this too where people are not leveraging this so I want to hear from your point of view you know how would you coach this team now that you sold to one telecom we can do it more how can that more happen?

Faraz Khan: Yeah, so end of the day, marketplace is like implementing a new CRM system. So from a management perspective, marketplace is important. But for a sales guy, marketplace, how marketplace is valuable, they realize it at a very later stage because end of the day, it's a nuisance for them. Because when first time, I had experienced a CRM system. It was a pain for me. I was happy going to a customer, doing my talk, taking my PO, come back. CRM system was a nuisance to me. Go put your entries in the CRM system, mature that deal 10%, 20%, 30%.

So I was very happy doing my job, taking my order and going back to sleep, making my money. That's what. For an individual, it looks like a perfect solution. But if an organization is growing and they want to leverage and make life easier for them to grow, then marketplace has to be embedded within their system. what I tell CEOs is that unless you don't ask your salesperson question, for example, you're reviewing your sales guy, you have forecast meeting. You're saying, you're gonna close 10. How many of them are AWS customers? How many of them gonna use marketplace? Can we leverage marketplace? You have a soft target, like instead of out of those 10 deals, you should at least sell three from marketplace. So that's why you are making your sales team realize the value it brings.

Bringing that thing into their everyday job, making them feel important because it is important to you. If you don't ask that question, it's not important for them. Make sure you ask that question. Make sure those deals get routed to Marketplace. Once that happens, use your APN portal to log in into those opportunities, launch those opportunities. That's how you generate that visibility within AWS.

See, I'll be very honest with you. A sales guy thinks like sales guys. If you go to a sales guy without anything and saying, let's work on marketplace, there are a hundred of ISVs which are working, trying to work with them. What are you bringing as a maturity? What you're bringing as a maturity is you're using your APN portal. You're using marketplace to route some of your deals. You can make those connects with account managers. That account manager gonna take you to his or her other accounts. That team manager of that account manager would recognize that, would take you to your other accounts and that's how it's gonna be a geometric progression.

So rather than just one day coming and say, I listed on Marketplace, give me leads. No, it doesn't work that way, I'll be very honest with you. It works where you bring in Marketplace motion as your core. No need to make it 100%. Nobody is expecting, no, every deal has to go through Marketplace. There could be situations where it goes direct, but try to create Marketplace as your go-to engine, one of the options, and create recognition. And then to scale it, what AWS has done is you're not only dependent on account managers, there are PSMs, partner sales managers, who are only responsible… is to sell partner solutions and they are not even coming to you and say only marketplace. They want to sell those solutions.

So you have at least 200 doors to knock and the probability just in India and probability is at least 10 will open the doors and invite you for a coffee. 10 doors means at least 40, 50 accounts. So identify, understand the structure of AWS first. What are the segments? Because maybe you're knocking a segment which you don't have a solution for or you don't sell it, your product doesn't work there.

So first identify how AWS works, majorly six segments, banking and financial sector, long tail startup, global SIs, ISVs, telecom media, entertainment, and retail and corporate. So these are structured.

Identify which was the one you want to target, map those people's, start doing those deals through Marketplace, create that visibility and boom, you are a great example. You have done exactly the same and you have got that visibility where people call you as an example to speak about how to be successful on Marketplace. So like me talking, thank you for giving me a chance. Somebody can take a civil interview with you. And you have done that in the past and you can tell what it takes for a seller to be successful on marketplace. So you already know about it. Yeah, so that's what.

Host: No No, But honestly, people do say that I have done this. But it is all because of champions like you, mentors like you, friends like you, right? know, who on the way said, no, this is not what you're doing it wrong. Do it this way, right? I was just walking the path. That's all really, right? The direction was important.

I'm going to flip. A part of this question now, because I've seen this pattern also, because when I sit with my community and when I say my community, I'm referring to founders or alliance folks, sales folks right now.

There's a lot of skepticism. It doesn't work. You may have done it, but it doesn't happen. You got lucky. And I don't think so, right? If only luck could work, things would have been so different. If you are sitting with now a skeptic, how would you give them maybe some metric to… Say that hey, why don't you try X for Y and measure this way. Or if you were to give them some framework to follow or how would you I don't want you to change their thinking but at least help them lean in with an objective, experiment, and then they can decide, they can still say that this doesn't work or they can say that no, I found something new, I identified something new.

Faraz Khan: Yeah, so very valid questions. The easiest thing which I would do to a skeptic is talk to Sujay Maheshwari. He has gone that in the past. He is like a live example. That's one thing I would do.

Second is what I tell them is there are some new ISVs which come and forget skeptic. They don't even know about it. What I tell them is give me your top 20 accounts, not leads, where you wish to at least you're having some conversation there something some deal or opportunity which is a sitting at 30 40 give it to me select your top 10 or 15 I'll connect you to those psm's and account managers work with them and close those deals if you are able to close out of that 20 if you're able to close five deals in next three months, that's a result for you.

So I'm not even talking about GTM. I'm not even talking about power of three. I'm not even talking about which gives me result in six to nine months. I can give you result within two months. You give me a deal which is at 30, 40%. I'll connect you to the account managers. I'll connect, I'll talk to the customer myself about the value of marketplace and things like that.

Good, you're good to go, try it out. And if you close 25 % of it, that's a good enough result to actually realize the value of Marketplace and how AWS support. Because why I'm giving 25%, I'm even sure about 75%. But why 25? It's the minimum thing which could happen.

And the other thing is that they would be able to realize how valuable AWS support is because see, it's very, I've been into sales for like 18 years. If I find out that I know somebody in an account who already have a relationship and doesn't collide with my functionality, it's an independent product, I for sure can take help. I'll tell them, do you know Mr. X? Just put a good word for me. That's what we would be doing. Like put a good word for me because they are already an AWS customer. I am a proven solution. You're not being biased or anything and just go ahead and take it forward from there.

And I've seen situations where customer has said, for us, I have these two products which are equally good, but I'm going with this because it's on marketplace, it makes my life easier. So just imagine even those conversations has happened that just being on marketplace gives you an edge if you're equally good with somebody else.

So that's what… I would say to a skeptic, try it out, give it three months, like what you said, how easily you can come out. I'm giving that ISV to come out of marketplace in three months if they don't like it. But I'm sure nobody has turned their back and most of them are enjoying the benefits. Companies who have started new, companies who have a proven solution but new to India, new to Southeast Asia.

And they have seen the results happening. So that could be very well possible. Yeah.

Host: I like that approach. I'll tell you why. Because it sounds like baby steps. It sounds like, it's about two months. It's about these five, 20 deals as you were talking about, like working with them. It sounds tactical. It sounds committable. But it can have very tangible result. then programmatically, maybe then it can be replicated if that decision is being taken.

What does a relationship look in AWS? AWS is a very large organization. There are so many roles and all kinds of metrics sort of structure. How do you maneuver this thing? There's Faraz Khan Marketplace, there's Head of this, there's PSM, there's PSAs and PDMs.

How do you, like if you were not in Amazon, let's say you were to now step out of Amazon, but you know AWS, you know the structure. And I'm not saying or preempting that you should not continue in AWS, it's just that if you want to, you're part of again a partner team, it could be any ISV or a consulting partner, and you want to manage this relationship, build this relationship, go make this relationship deeper. What does it mean? What are the few things you know somebody like us keep doing like from a partner's side? What should we be doing?

Faraz Khan: Yeah. See, if I term it as a very simple thing, take it as your sales deal. You want to map an account. You need to find who's going to be your voice within the organization. It's again, like it's a huge organization. I take it as a positive where you have much options to fail and many options to be successful.

So if you have two people and you're knocking that door, not opening, rather than 200 people knocking that door, the possibility of you making a relationship is much higher. So that complexity, I'll take it as an advantage. That's first thing.

Second thing is look into what is your strength. Like for example, in Indian culture, we go with a gift to somebody's house. So for a gift for an AWS person is the APN portal. How many opportunities you have in the system, how many deals you are nurturing and planning to close through marketplace. And if those deals are my deals as an AWS person, I'm interested in talking to you.

Even if those are not my deals, I can at least tell, talk to him or her because most of your deals is in banking and financial industry. You should be talking to… XYZ. If you're talking to a PSM, I can tell this is my colleague PSM who manages banking and financial. This is the sales team who manages that. So it's the maneuvering.

See, it took me one and a half years to understand the full structure of marketplace and full structure of AWS. So I'm not expecting you to learn everything. First, decide what you're good at. Start utilizing those portals, APN, Marketplace to create that visibility. Because whatever you put on Marketplace or an opportunity, the AWS account managers and PSM are answerable for it. It's not that they're lying down. There is a review which happens, they should have an update about it.

If there is a Cloudanix opportunity sitting in the system for 90 days, I'm sure somebody going to ask what is happening to this lead? Why it's coming? It's at 60%. Why it's… What's missing? And I'm sure somebody going to come to you and say, what is this opportunity about? So end of the day, you don't need to learn everything about AWS. First, learn about what you are good at. Second, learn about how the system works. Third is there are multiple teams. There is a PSM team, there is a solution architect team, there is a sales team, there is a marketplace team, there is an ISV PTN team.

So you have options to get in or at least get a direction because see how I work with AWS is if I'm not responsible for something, my answer is no, I'm not responsible. It's never my answer. I will only give an answer where it says either I am responsible for something. If I am not responsible, Mr. X or Mrs. X is responsible for it. Go to them. Then only I have done my job. Otherwise, I haven't.

And that's how most of AWS thinks. Where either it's my responsibility or it's somebody else's responsibility. I'm sure you would have hardly got an email. That's not my responsibility. You would have always got a response that it's not my responsibility, but it is this person's responsibility. If you want, I can connect you to them. If you know them directly, go and talk to them. So that's how you knock the door. And that's what I told you. Do look at AWS also as a sales cycle, map the account, learn perseverance. That's what I started with and that's how it's gonna work. There are structures to it and you would find that success automatically.

Host: Yeah, I think what if I were to underline or I want to take away from this particular bit is and I've seen this, I have witnessed this every time because we do reach out cold to a lot of AWS, either it is partner sales managers or account managers or segment leaders. They have never said, like take a walk or I have no idea sort of thing.

It's always that they'll ask some probing question that hey, do you sell in this geography, this type of customer? And you could say that no, we have not sold in this geography, but another geography we have sold and like we would like to start a relationship here. There is always a direction we get. That direction could be difficult to walk on that, right? But there's always a direction. It's never closed doors sort of thing. And that's the beauty of a relationship with, especially working with AWS and AWS marketplace construct.

Alright, I want to switch gears a little for us. Enough of marketplace. What do you don't like about your work? What is something which you could if you could change you would love to change?

Faraz Khan: The Indian taxation system if I need to change. That's the only thing I'm going to change because end of the day, I like each and every bit of it. You know, like there was a time when my managers, when I was not with AWS, they were like, where were you? What were you doing? Like you should invest more time.

Here it's just opposite. Like I get a feedback is like spend less time at work. Organize your personal life. yesterday I was joking. This morning I had a call at 7.30 with Karthik the GM for like and I was like telling him like Karthik, Marketplace is my first lab. It's like is your family listening about it? I said they do. And they understand it as my midlife crisis, that I have another love, parallel love rather than my family.

So marketplace, think that's one of the best thing which has happened to me. I don't wanna change anything. The only thing at which we are doing is scaling marketplace. We are launching marketplaces in regions.

Korea launches was one of the 15 launches which happened. India is the 16th one coming on October 1st as phase one. So the thing is that what if I like to improve something about Marketplace is about being Marketplace in every country possible. Because it gives such an immense support to our sellers, to our customers.

And plus what I missed about and we just didn't discuss is resellers. It doesn't even eliminate the resellers. if an ISV sells through a reseller, either a distributor or a channel partner, they can be part of marketplace. If a customer buys through a reseller, they can be part of the marketplace journey. So we are not eliminating even the resellers or the distributors.

There was a time when distributors used to think, if marketplace comes in, we're not part of it. No, distributor are our core. We work with our distributors through our DSaWR model, through our CBP OPA models, and they're realizing that value and they're being part of marketplace. So they are part of the game. As resellers, which manage like thousands of accounts of AWS, they are part of the thing. And we even allow… resellers of ISVs who doesn't have to do anything with AWS, but they can still be a reseller on Marketplace and can start reselling the AWS solution.

And just imagine a reseller sitting with a customer and saying that I'm PaloAlto reseller. So, for example, gives an understanding, he's part of PaloAlto, but if I'm looking at a competition, you shouldn't be discussing that with that partner. But if you are a Marketplace reseller, you say, you use whatever I am I can resell you because I can resell anything which is on marketplace with the right transfer price and things like that.

So you become a more consultative partner rather than a sales partner. And just imagine an ISV utilizing existing AWS resellers in targeting those customers. So one more aspect of it get increased PSM, AM, SA's, FLMs and the distributors and the partners because they have a strong relationship in thousands of customers, you can utilize that and start reselling. That is something which is, we are ramping up our CPP emotion, the reseller, and that's gonna be a very, very major milestone moving forward and could be utilized in getting into marketplace and AWS customers.

Host: Perfect. Yeah. No, this, this gives economies of scale in terms of like the distribution bit, right? Very well said you, India marketplace, you mentioned briefly about it. And earlier also we were talking about it. It's a public news. So we are not again talking about something which we don't know.

What I want to know if I were to make just a clip of India market, please think right this this bit here What would be the top three problems we will be solving with the India Marketplace launch, specifically for the customers and for the partners, like both sides. What is the basic problem? Why AWS is putting, and it has not been an easy project or quantum of work. I know for a fact, several years this has been in the making because of the complexity, right? And can you give some insight into how life would change starting October?

Faraz Khan: So the thing is that this all requirement actually came from a customer, like why India was prioritized against any other country, because India is a growing region. Marketplace was a requirement because the reason is that right now, the billing happens from AWS Inc. The Customer has to do a foreign remittance in US dollars. there is not a clarity because the foreign currency is going outside the country. What is the tax implication for it? Nobody knows about that. The conversion rates keep fluctuating. The bank charges and everything. So, it's always an issue when somebody is transferring money outside India because the government regulates foreign currency. That's one thing.

Second thing is that there is no GST invoice which gets generated. So GST is a big thing which customers need to claim in order to neutralize what they pay and what they receive. And the third thing is a single bill because right now a bill comes from AWS Inc. in US dollars. There's a bill comes in for AWS, India Private Limited. So these two bills would get into one and that's the reason this would benefit our customers to consolidate their purchases and make sure that they are paying one invoice, one transaction, local bank account in INR. So that would be the beauty of Marketplace Launch.

Host: We wish we had this as of yesterday. Right. We all are hoping we are all awaiting. And I know for a fact, mentioned about Karthik earlier, right. You know, his team is working very hard on this and we are all eagerly waiting like this happens. And it will make even lives of everybody involved. Right. You know, not just the customer, they're finance, procurement team but even the account managers somebody like you the partners themselves right where we can with lesser friction if I can put it this way right you know get onto this journey of faster adoption sort of thing and more acceptance right this is pretty cool.

So B Bhopal B Bangalore, D, Dubai, G, Gurgaon. What is the next alphabet?

Faraz Khan: B again maybe like going back to Bhopal. Another G which is Goa, I don't know. So the thing is my sister just shifted to Goa so maybe it could be a possibility that I like that state, sorry to call it the city. I like that state so I don't know. But I what's gonna remain I guess for a very long time would be the A which is AWS. So A would decide is it B, C, G, D, A, whatever it is. So that's what it is right now. So that's the plan.

Host: Right! Well, every sentence and every word, you were talking about and especially if it was around AWS, you were beaming, right? You you had that grin, that good, you know, energy. So absolutely, I know you are enjoying your journey, especially the impact word going back with what you said, right?

I want to ask something quick here. What one part of your role you look forward to be doing every day? Like how does your day look like when you get up? Like what is it what you are expecting that I wish I can get this like either more or you want to do something repetitive?

Faraz Khan: So my day on work starts at 7.30 because usually like I'm part of the APJ team, so Australia starts, and there are some calls which happens and some day usually ends at 9.30 p.m. in the night. Sometime I've put an alarm at 1.30 or 2.30 a.m. where like there are some calls which has to be done because it's USPST time or something. I have to do that. But every day is a very exciting day. I want to be right in front of my laptop responding. The first seven from 7.30 to 8.30 usually goes into responding to my emails because that's the time where nobody calls you and you can concentrate there. From nine o'clock the call starts and the thing is I remind every day myself can I say no start learning to say no to something but I'm not able to still till date nor I even within my heart, I want to learn to say no.

So whether it is an ISV calling, whether it's a call with internal stakeholders, whether it's called with ISVs, whether it's called with the customers. Like that's how my days goes and I want to make sure that I make everybody's marketplace journey easy and that's what it goes. So that's the reason I was able to learn just by solving a problem. Actually, you can learn a lot of things just by taking the responsibility, or I'll get that figure it out for you.

So the moment you're figuring it out, you're also learning. So next time, maybe you don't need to go that path and just answer it right away. So that's how my day looks like. It's calls and calls and calls.

And the other exciting bit is travel. I was in Bali for a speaking assignment at HCL. I was at Singapore. Then I was supposed to be at lot of places, but due to my situation, I was not able to travel. But the travel bit. meeting a lot of people, getting a lot of respect and love, making amazing friends like you. So that's what keeps my day alive and that's what makes me keep running and getting more for AWS Marketplace. So that's what my day looks like.

Host: Sounds like a very blessed journey opportunity. And I think it definitely originates from you within, right? know, everything which you are doing. I want to put you on spot and I want to do something very unconventional. I know you write poems and you write some amazing shairi as it is called, right? While we have been speaking in English for the last one hour, ten minutes.

I want to request you if you can, any latest creation which you would like to read for us and you take a minute or two but and it did not be one if you have been enjoying after writing you know that thing of your creation and you have hundreds of them we also know that.

Please, if you can read that out for us and if you want to explain, because it is Urdu, not everybody may even understand the meaning of it. So if you want to then explain, we would really love to listen to that.

And while you are doing that, I want to repeat again this. When we reached out from ScaleToZero to Faraz that we are doing this podcast with them. We told him that, we are not gonna tell you anything about what we are gonna talk. But he had to get some approvals from AWS. So he had to mention something. So we said, yeah, we'll only talk about AWS, marketplace, and a bit about sales kind of thing. I don't think he had a clue that I'll ask him to talk about his creation.

Faraz Khan: I can, like, if it's an English podcast, if you allow, can tell one of my English ones. So if you allow that, so, yeah.

Host: Irshad, I don’t know what’s an equivalent of Irshad in English, but I would say just please go ahead. Indeed.

Faraz Khan: Yeah, so it goes like that.

It seems walking towards the prison cell. Why the things I do seems to fail. Surrounded by the fear of darkness, every bit of me is in a state of stillness. The air around me seems so humid. It's that tear which fell when I got stuck with the cupid. The cold prison bars have frozen by blood. And I fell on my knees with a loud thud. The creak which came from the prison door passed through me leaving a bore. I sat leaning with the damp wall like playing alone in a huge opera hall. In my dream I saw a body dead who died fighting for a loaf of bread. I was woken up by a ray of light which came through me as through a hole up on my right. And day by day I used to wait for the morning sun. Every bit of it was so much fun. I used to play hide and seek with a fellow. It was no one else, just my own shadow. I realized life is about what you have. It's nothing to do for what you crave. And one day I walked out of the prison cell. the world seems so beautiful. Which I used to call hell.

This is the like... Yeah.

Host: Beautiful. This is actually what reflects it. This is what is you, Faraz is not trapped into that prison cell.

Faraz Khan: But like my fundamental is if something goes up, it goes down. So bad days can stay, but it's not going to stay forever. Good comes and bad days makes you realize how a good day is a good day and a very good day. So that's how life is all about. So you need bad days as a background to make your good days feel very good. Yeah.

Host: Very warm, yes absolutely. You would like to read more something maybe in Urdu? If you have something, again I don't want you to...

Faraz Khan: Yeah, yeah, I can. So I'll let you know the meanings of those words.

Kabhi Lafzo Zoki Barish, Kabir Sansokhi Hararath, Kabir Honto Ki Jumbish, Jumbish is like shaking. Kabir Aakho Ki Shararat, Kabir Bicharne Ki Mayusi, Kabir Yadon Ki Madhoshi, Kabir Intizaar Ki Tashwish, Tashwish means anxiety, Kabir Hawaon Ki Sargoshi, means whispering. So Kabir Intizaar Ki Tashwish, Kabir Hawaon Ki Sargoshi, Kabe intizaar ki tashweesh tashweesh means anxiety kabe hawaon ki sargoshi means whispering so kabe intizaar ki tashweesh kabe hawaon ki sargoshi kabe khayalon ki dostak kabe duaon ki inayat inayat means blessing kabe jild ki lamas jild is skin touch is lamas kabe khayalon ki dostak kabe duaon ki inayat kabe jild ki lamas kabe Sometimes the Aftab. Aftab means sun. Shiddhat means intensity. Sometimes al-viday. Al-viday is separation. Muddat is duration. So sometimes the discipline Sometimes to Kabhi aftab ki shiddat, kabhi al-vidai ki muddat, kabhi qurbat ka skoon, qurbat is closeness, kabhi qurbat ka skoon, kabhi lahjai ka lihaaz, lahjai is pronunciation, lihaaz is respect, kabhi qurbat ka skoon, kabhi lahjai ka lihaaz, kabhi seher ki nazakat. Kabhi umeet ka parwaaz. Parwaaz means flight. So kabhi khurbat ka supoon, kabhi lehje ka lihaaz, kabhi seher ki nazaqat, kabhi umeet ka parwaaz. Mere uns tere kitne husn. Uns is love. So mere uns tere kitne uns. Kon Faya Kun, Faya Kun Faya Kun

So, it's the creator who creates everything. that's what it is. So, it's there. This is a poetry regarding different moods of your life, different experiences of your life. But I'm kind of a religious person, partially.

So like it's the creator who creates everything so that's what it is. Like I believe a lot happens. So that's what it is. So yeah, that's that's something a small one for you.

Host: Very brilliant, very brilliant, very good! Thank you for sharing that, I have got one last question, Anything you’re reading/watching these days. Anything interesting which you even recommend going back to sort of passing on for someone who want to learn from you or maybe have read in the past.

Faraz Khan: To be honest, I haven't got time for the last one or two years to read anything. the thing is that watching, most of the time I'm watching some very village related web series like the Nawazuddin Siddiqui type. So that's what I'm watching these days.

To be honest, I cannot even recall the name. You know the reason why, like my memory is crazy right now. But yeah, so that's what I'm doing right now. Suits was something with, which is one of the English web series I have to finish. I've completed like three seasons already, so I have to start that. So that is something actually gives me a courage to speak your mind even at work.

Because we are always like as Indians, we are… always taught as like never say no or respect your seniors and always given. But the thing is like that's not the case anymore. Like I teach my kids to say no even to me. Like suits is something I which gives me gives me that courage to speak your mind at work and it has helped. So that is something which is important. Yes.

Host: That’s a good one too! I had also enjoyed watching that. Although I couldn’t finish it myself. But, very well written and very well done. Superb. We could talk all day, hours, right? But we have to be respectful of your time and you have troves of information, troves of love, troves of helpfulness for us, for everybody, right? Who works with you. You have touched so many lives, you know, I know… In the ecosystem, in my journey, when your name comes, I know how respectful and how thankful they are.

And we are thankful today for your time and all your insights in our conversation. So thank you very much. It was lovely speaking to you.

Faraz Khan: No. Same here, it's like there is a lot of respect and love for you. Wish you all the success. If I can be of any support, I would do that. So best of luck to you, your team. You're doing a great work. So success is inevitable.

Host: Thank you. Thank you so much!